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PostSubject: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:24 am

I wrote this with my friend, Grace, a long while ago, and she emailed me today and told me that she used it again on another site (prompted after New Moon fangirl squealing). And I decided to post it here for the heck of it.

Please, please do not take offense to this, Twilight fans. It's simply a collaboration of points that my friend and I gathered when asked why we disliked the series.

(It also took us quite a while to write...>.<)


*All of this is opinion. Please be respectful!*


1. Edward is abusive.


2. The books are sexist.


3. The entire series is one big plothole.


4. Adding onto the plothole issue, the main plot is either nonexistent or very, very small.


5. What Edward and Bella have is lust, not love.


6. Bella fails as a character.


7. The whole issue of imprinting: gross. Pedophilia, at worst, sick at best.


8. The books send a bad message.



Let me elaborate on each point.


1. EDWARD IS ABUSIVE.

Edward, undoubtedly, wears the pants in the relationship. He controls every chaste little kiss, is completely manipulative and domineering, prevents Bella from having a social life/dreams/ambitions outside of him, manipulates her into marriage, and prevents her from seeing her only friend, Jacob, by going so far as to take the engine out of her vehicle and kidnapping her.


It doesn't matter whether or not he does it because he loves her. It doesn't matter that he's a vampire. Those aren't excuses, and can't be used validly to defend Edward. He is jealous of Bella's relationships (case in point: Jacob), he emotionally withholds almost everything from her, he continually breaks his promises, and he's always playing games with her.


It also doesn't matter that he's trying to protect Bella. He has no right to do so. It isn't his life, and it isn't his right to decide who she sees, when she sees them, etc.


2. THE BOOKS ARE SEXIST.


Oh dear. This is one of the things I absolutely abhor. I may rant a little more in this section, because it bothers me to no end.


Bella is weak. That sounds harsh, but she is. She is the cliched damsel in distress, morally weak-willed, unwilling to do anything or go anywhere without Edward, doesn't have any hopes or dreams outside of her boyfriend (college, a career, etc). I could go on. I'll focus more on Bella when I get to point #6.


The rest of the female characters are inferior to the males across the board. Jessica, Angela, and every other female Bella comes across is deemed as shallow, and they don't get to have personalities, whereas Mike, Tyler, and Eric all have distinct personas. Bella's mom is flighty and unreliable, as opposed to dependable Charlie. Even the female vampires have issues: Rosalie as a human was shallow, and Esme serves no other purpose than being Carlisle's wife.


Oh, Leah, Leah, Leah. I actually really liked Leah. She interested me, the exception to the "ONLY MALES ARE WEREWOLVES HOO HAH" rule. But, of course, SMeyer couldn't leave her only possible salvation of the female gender alone. She had to portray Leah as bitter, mean, unreasonable, when she was really just heartbroken over Sam. Jacob, on the other hand, was coddled when Bella broke his heart. How unfair. How...sexist.


On the subject of werewolves, imprinting is also unfair. The women have absolutely no say in the matter.


Alice is not a strong female character, either. True, in comparison to, say, Angela, sure, she's great. But when you compare her to the great Vampires in, say, Anne Rice's "True Blood," she's absolutely inferior. Even her powers are less than Edward's and Jasper's. Hers are wishy-washy and unreliable.


Let me just add this very quickly: Just because Bella doesn't mind her role as a female and a designated happy homemaker doesn't mean it's not sexist.


3. THE ENTIRE SERIES IS ONE BIG PLOTHOLE.

There are so many examples of these: Alice's inability to "see" the werewolves; the entire desertion of pure, traditional vampire instinct; don't even get me started on the Renesmee thing. It will get graphic.


Let's just say, for argument's sake, that all of the unrealistic things = [x].


"It's fantasy/fiction/just a story! It doesn't have to make sense!"


Oooh, this argument makes me crazy. Just because the series is fiction doesn't give it an excuse to be unrealistic. The author's job is to make it believable, which SMeyer has not done an adequate job of doing. Believable fiction comes from believable characters (Edward is, supposedly, perfect. No one is perfect. Nilch for believable fiction, point one), create a world with rules (and follow those rules), and have character development throughout the story, or, in this case, throughout the saga.


The fact that it's fiction doesn't mean Bella and Edward's "true love" is any less unrealistic. Attraction does not equal love, much less eternal love.


4. THE MAIN PLOT IS PATHETIC, IF EXISTENT AT ALL.


Let's get one thing clear: Bella and Edward's "love" is not a plot. The tension between Edward and Jacob is not a plot. James trying to kill Bella is not a plot. Those are all subplots, and crappy ones at that.


Plots encompass character development, and neither Bella nor Edward really changes from the first time we meet them, Bella on page one of Twilight and Edward not very long thereafter. Neither of them have identifiable characteristics (Edward playing the piano, for example, is not a character trait), and neither of them really develops at ALL. Edward's character arc also does not occur when he meets Bella. Wanting to kill her one day and wanting to hold her hand the next is not significant. The idea that Edward hasn't really lived until meeting her only reinforces his pathetic character. He is, essentially, a blank slate, and stays that way through all four books.


Now, let's get to the actual plot. Here's basically what happens in Twilight:


1. Bella moves to Forks.

2. Bella sees Edward for the first time, drools incessantly,

3. They "fall in love"

4. James comes to town, smells Bella, and decides that he wants to eat her.

5. Edward kills James in a fade-to-black scene.

6. YAYYYY, TRU LUV PREVAILS FOREVAAAAAAAA (sorry. Couldn't help it. >.<)


Plot = conflict. The main plot, Twihards may argue, is Bella and Edward falling in love. That was resolved in a matter of pages, and therefore fails as a plot. Finding out Edward is a vampire is also not a plot, because it says so right...on...the cover. So the reader is waiting for Bella to just FIGURE IT OUT ALREADY, KTHNX, and it becomes really. Really. Did I mention REALLY annoying?


The James thing is the only issue that could reasonably be counted as a plot. I'll accept it, for now. But it was resolved incredibly easily, with Edward (of course) saving the day (and the damsel in distress), Bella escapes relatively unharmed, and life goes on as normal. Yippee.

5. What Edward and Bella have is lust, not love.


This is the kicker. Bear with me.


Merriam-Webster's definition of "lust":

noun: 2: usu. intense or unbridled sexual desire : lasciviousness

3 a: an intense longing : craving <a lust to succeed>

Transitive verb: to have an intense desire or need : crave; specifically : to have a sexual urge



Wikipedia's definition of "infatuation":

Infatuation is the state of being completely carried away by unreasoned passion or love; addictive love. Infatuation usually occurs at the beginning of a relationship. It is characterized by urgency, intensity, desire, and/or anxiety, in which there is an extreme absorption in another. It is traditionally associated with youth.



Meyer makes it very, very clear to the reader, by means of both Bella and Edward many, many times to the point of absolute, unadulterated insanity, that they are in TRUE LOVE.


This true love, claimed by Meyer herself to be better and more epic than Heathcliff and Catherine! Elizabeth and Darcy! (Which I find very amusing, considering Twilight is very largely based around Pride and Prejudice), happens in less than, say, five seconds. Yeah. Not very realistic at all. No one, not even sparkly, gorgeous vampires can look at the face of someone and decide that that person is their soulmate, forever and always.


Every other word out of Bella's mouth is a description of Edward's total, mindblowing hotness (beauty is subjective, mind you), or "ZOMG EDWARD I LOVE YOU FOREVER <3!" Their compatibility as a couple is questionable. They never do anything (what happened to just watching movies on the weekend?), they never have real conversations (other than "I'M DANGEROUS STAY AWAY"). They watched Romeo and Juliet in the first book, but only for the purpose of comparing E & B to Romeo and Juliet. Which is laughable, honestly, considering Shakespeare wrote that story as a mockery of teenage love and how teenagers will go so far as to kill themselves for each other, which is very, very ironic if you think about it. But, I digress.


They don't have real personalities, so how can we tell if they're actually compatible? Not very believable; refer to point #3.


Meyer also romanticizes suicide. This is something I'll explore in point #8.


6. BELLA FAILS AS A CHARACTER.

Bella is an idiot, I'm sorry to say. Well, not really.


Characters and action must be SHOWN, not TOLD. I'm sure you've heard that term before.


Bad writers do one of two things:

Tell [x], but don't show [x].

or

Tell [x], but show [y].


The second one is much, much worse, and Meyer is guilty of it. She constantly contradicts herself in regards to her precious heroine. We're told that Bella likes to read, and that she likes to read classics (Wuthering Heights, Romeo and Juliet, and so on), but we never actually SEE HER READING A BOOK. She never makes references to the books, she never is said to have anything to do with anything that could make her a smart character unless Meyer wants to point out that Bella is smart. She doesn't have interests in her classes. She never, ever discusses the books she supposedly devoured, and that were her only friends in Phoenix.


This is TELLING that Bella likes to read, not showing it.


Let's look at the utterly stupid things that Bella likes to do.


1. She walks off into a dark alley where she might get picked up, and not in a good way.


2. She doesn’t tell Edward or any of the centuries-old, experienced vampires about James’ message, deciding to handle it herself instead.

And almost gets killed in the process.


3. She gets lost in the woods (granted, emotional issues aside) within sight of her own home. (...)


4. She repeatedly puts herself (and her life) in danger to hear a voice in her head.


5. Despite writing an essay on Shakespeare being misogynistic, she does not recognize at all the sexist and abusive elements in her own relationships.


Bella is not a pretty little individual snowflake in the smart department.


Let's consider some contradictions about Bella:

1. Meyer tells us that Bella knows herself. But it takes Jake kissing her to make her realize that she loves him. Wut.


2. Meyer tells us that Bella is independent, and yet she turns into a zombie when Edward goes bye-bye. Any happiness that she has after he leaves is in Jacob.


3. Meyer tells us that Bella supposedly hates all the shallow, stupid girls at her school, but her relationship with Edward is entirely based off of appearances. Come on. If Edward wasn't freaking gorgeous, she wouldn't give him a second glance.


Conclusion?

Bella is stupid.


7. Imprinting is gross.

It is NOT romantic, it is NOT fair to the females and, frankly, it's creepy. Love at first sight by any other name is still lame, but Meyer chose imprinting. Not a good move. Let's look into it.


Looking back at the "sexist" issue, who imprints? The male werewolves. And 2/3 of the imprinting examples we see are older males (Jacob and Quil have the mentality of 25-year-old males when they are werewolves, apparently) imprinting on toddlers and infants (Claire and Renesmee).


Imprinting is not romantic. It's not to ensure TWU LUV FOREVER. The sole purpose of imprinting is to reproduce. Period. That means that the relationship between the imprinter and the imprintee is sexual. It's not an older brother/uncle/father figure relationship, as Meyer would like us to believe. When you keep in mind that imprinting is sexual, and that the imprinter is not a sexual interest until the imprintee is of age...well, that's child grooming. Plain and simple. It's creepy, it's gross, it's pedophilia.


It's also sexist once again: take, for example, Quil and Claire's relationship. While Quil can't help his imprinting instinct, he has the upper hand in their relationship. He gets to spend the next 16 years molding their relationship while baby Claire never, ever gets a say, or even a chance to see what life without a looming father/brother/uncle/future partner figure overhead.


On the subject of imprinting and sexism, what in the world was Miss Meyer thinking when writing Leah as a werewolf? Werewolf-Leah is infertile, guys. She's twenty years old and going through menopause. That takes away both her right to have children and her right to imprint, because being infertile means there's no need for a future mate.


Male werewolves don't age, as long as they phase regularly. So why is Leah going through freaking menopause? Why do the guys get their happy endings, but Leah is denied hers?


Nice, SMeyer.


8. THE BOOKS SEND BAD MESSAGES.

Among the popular themes in Twilight:

1. If your twu luv dies, it's totally okay to kill yourself.

2. If your man loves you to pieces and would kill himself for you, then it's okay for him to be abusive.

3. Imprinting - child grooming with a fancy name - is okay.


Now, if these issues were actually ADDRESSED in the novel, it wouldn't be as inherently BAD as it is in Twilight. Sure, they're depressing enough, but take, for example, Pride and Prejudice. The author of that story takes into account the sexism of that day and age and writes it into her novel, acknowledging that it exists and showing character development even around that issue.


SMeyer, on the other hand, refuses to acknowledge that those issues exist in her book. Therefore, the implications are still there, but since they are being wholly disregarded...that right there is the bad part, because readers think there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.




I have one more point for you to consider: the science. I'm not going to delve too deeply into that, but let me just say that I'm a fantasy/science fan. I'm okay with going along with the story if it makes sense and follows its own logic.


When someone writes science into his or her own novel, though, and gets it totally wrong, that's when you can start to tear it apart. This is a direct quote from SMeyer:

Quote :

My reasoning was, why should the sun burn them? That seemed like a very mystical kind of thing, and my vampires are more science than magic to me (whereas my werewolves are more magic than science).


The "science" issue of this debate would be Renesme, of course. I'm not going to get into that. It would take me way too long. But that quote, right there, is exactly why we can analyze and totally disprove SMeyer's logic and science.



I don't mean to offend any Twilight fans, of course. I understand and respect your opinion if you disagree with me. I just can't accept this as wholesome entertainment or literature, even as a guilty pleasure. Not with all of this in mind.

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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:14 am

I agree!~
I used to like Twilight, but after reading the whole Harry Potter series and then reading Twilight again, I realized how dumb I was =/ *facepalm*

What Edward and Bella have is not love, like you said. Edward likes her, for what, her scent? And Bella likes him for..... his looks? D=

Edward encourages Bella to lie to her father about seeing him, and furthermore sneaks around Charlie's back in order to see Bella after curfew and before Charlie knew about the relationship.

Edward does not allow Bella to make her own decisions or to disagree with him. In the beginning of New Moon, Edward hides, takes, or destroys all her possessions that are associated with him, without her permission or even her knowledge. He takes Bella's belongings that are associated with him in an effort to control her healing process. But Bella is in charge of how she deals with the loss. Edward had no right to act for her.

Edward watches Bella while she sleeps (during entire nights, weeks at a time). Even before Bella is aware that he is doing so. Without so much as acquiring permission, he sneaks into her house through her bedroom window to spy on her. A violation of privacy. ( This is also considered stalking. I would've called the police. You should add this too, I don't remember reading it =D)

*ahem*
I could go on and on, but I think I'll stop right here.......To make a long story
short, I agree with you 100%, ES~


Last edited by foxtail616 on Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Someone remind me to check to make sure I have no typos next time, please *gonk*)
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:39 pm

*claps* Nicely written ES! I couldn't have said it any better myself! The quote made me laugh, seeing as it makes no sense at all. Vampires when in the sun= sparkle. Verrrry science related! All the greatest scientists know that don't they?!

Edward is totally abusive yet thats somehow... love? and Bella is the typical "girly girl extremist" if you will, and can't live without a guy by her side?

And Renesme.... Ummm... Nevermind- I won't even get started on that.
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:54 am

well..i am a Twilight fan..but ES very well said..i seen ranters rant before with all the words that can really hurt a person..but you..you exhibited good ways of criticism..
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:01 pm

I've found that there are two types of people who don't like Twilight, Amando. There are the ones who hate the hype and the fangirls, but have actually never read the books and don't really care to. Then there are the people who have read the books, seen the movies, and just...can't stand them. I fall into the latter category.

I still don't think there's any reason to be, like, rude about it or anything, and neither does Grace, who wrote this with me. But someone asked us exactly why we didn't like it, and we wanted to get our point across without making ourselves the target of angry fangirls, because, believe you me, they are SCARY.

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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:10 pm

I agree! I read the first book and then just stopped in the middle of the second book. I was already disturbed by the fact that Meyer didn't think before writing this. Well, that was stupid. My cousin lend me the books and gave them back to her saying that I was pretty much not content. She agreed and said she was going to sell the books some time ago. I 100% agree with you, ES.

There's also one hint if you don't want to write horrible books:

Think before you write.

That's something I learned from my own writing. ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:53 pm

I have to agree~ I don't see why some people love twilight. I also heard there are BARBIE DOLLS now, (Saw them when I was looking at a people magazine) Miley Cyrus (Can't believe I'm saying this) I have to agree with her too. If you didn't see the yahoo news, Miley cyrus said something that people shouldn't be obsessed with twilight series.

actually i agree wtih everyone who hates twilight. And middy nice advice 8D. How did meyers write those big, huge books so fast? SHE RUSHED THEM. Thank for listening have a good night~ (No actually have a nice morning.XD)

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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:44 pm

I like Twilight, but I agree with the 'Think before you write' thing. Some of the things in the books are a little...ugh...
I'm not going to agree with some stuff about Bella, purely because I have been compared to her by my best friend. [Is it my fault I'm clumsy?]
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:52 pm

artygamer wrote:

I'm not going to agree with some stuff about Bella, purely because I have been compared to her by my best friend. [Is it my fault I'm clumsy?]

A clumsy person, or character in a novel, isn't a bad thing. It's just not a character flaw. Bella is a Mary Sue, plain and simple: the only thing going against her is her clumsiness. A character flaw would be jealousy, an inclination to violence, etc. Not falling all over yourself, getting paper cuts, or...whatever else Bella does.

35Bell wrote:
actually i agree wtih everyone who hates twilight. And middy nice advice 8D. How did meyers write those big, huge books so fast? SHE RUSHED THEM. Thank for listening have a good night~ (No actually have a nice morning.XD)

This is actually one of the reasons that professional writers dislike SMeyer so much. Her entire publish process with Twilight took about six months. It took her maybe a year to write the books, tops. Extraordinary writers don't finish a book that quickly. She wrote the scenes she wanted to first, and then went back and tied everything together. It's just frustrating to people who've waited several years just to publish and sell their novels.

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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:13 am

well..i like fantasy stories so i like this series but not too hyperactive like the one i am for Taylor Swift..welll,Miley Cyrus..well i kinda like her too..in our country..Twilight is a blockbuster and Miley is too..but that is what the majority likes..then live with it..that's what i say..
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:40 pm

Actually, I know more people who dislike it then like it... I agree with Miley too... As much as it irks me to say it... And Selena hating on the Twilight series? Maybe a hint of anger for the werewolf boy is hidden in her dislike?
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:40 am

stephxluke wrote:
Actually, I know more people who dislike it then like it... I agree with Miley too... As much as it irks me to say it... And Selena hating on the Twilight series? Maybe a hint of anger for the werewolf boy is hidden in her dislike?

well..i knew more people who likes twilight..
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:51 pm

I read Twilight before the movie came out and tbh i was obsessed. In retrospect, the writing is just bad. [Smeyer has improved though. The Host is excellent] I can't reread them now. I tried, I just can't. But i will say this: it was meant for entertainment, and I recieve it as such. I don't take the inner themes and messages seriously and just enjoy what I can from it. I really enjoy Alice, Jasper, and Rosalie's back stories a lot.

Your arguments were really well written and it's obvious that you don't hate it just because it's popular. If you have a reason and have read the books, I respect anyone with a negative opinion on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:56 am

I think, in theory, the saga could've been much better than it actually is. It certainly had potential; I just think that the characters and the plot line left so much to be desired. If she had delved a little deeper into the backstory of the more interesting characters, say, Jasper, I probably would've liked it better than I do. It almost seems unfinished to me.

As a writer myself, and an avid reader, I certainly have some pretty high standards. I don't hate the books because they're so popular, but because I think they're poorly written.

I'm always, always up for debates about anything, though, and I love talking to people with opposing opinions.

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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:45 am

stealingprayers wrote:
I read Twilight before the movie came out and tbh i was obsessed. In retrospect, the writing is just bad. [Smeyer has improved though. The Host is excellent] I can't reread them now. I tried, I just can't. But i will say this: it was meant for entertainment, and I recieve it as such. I don't take the inner themes and messages seriously and just enjoy what I can from it. I really enjoy Alice, Jasper, and Rosalie's back stories a lot.

Your arguments were really well written and it's obvious that you don't hate it just because it's popular. If you have a reason and have read the books, I respect anyone with a negative opinion on it.

Haha, I was wondering when you were gonna read this! Obviously, as you know, I haven't read any of them... Which may make the way I dislike it a bit... well, not fair in a way. But ES is a good one to have a debate with- lol
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:01 am

i 100% percetn agree. the only character i ever rlly liked anymore was jacob. here are some of my opninos, and some good points a youtuber made.

Bella thinks of herself to highly-notice how she's always blowing off her 'friends'? she compaires poor mike to a dog for goodness sake!

She is a user-let's face it here, jacob is more like a fall-back boy for bella. she uses him when she needs him, then tosses him a side once she all slap-happy and good again.

not a very good role model-y'know how teens can be impressionable? well, bella is very disrespectful to her parents. she doesn't even call him mom and dad for goodness sake! she's always blowing poor charlie and she dissed renee cuz she didn't like her new hubby.

she's dull-as es-chan said before, no personality.

umm, mary-sure much?-need i say much more?

there r tones of other reasons i'm probably missing here, but good job ed-chan! u made ur points and supported them su~ and also, edward watches her sleep. stalker much?
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:25 am

Eternal Silence wrote:
I think, in theory, the saga could've been much better than it actually is. It certainly had potential; I just think that the characters and the plot line left so much to be desired. If she had delved a little deeper into the backstory of the more interesting characters, say, Jasper, I probably would've liked it better than I do. It almost seems unfinished to me.

As a writer myself, and an avid reader, I certainly have some pretty high standards. I don't hate the books because they're so popular, but because I think they're poorly written.

I'm always, always up for debates about anything, though, and I love talking to people with opposing opinions.


I agree that it could've been better. If SMeyer had focused on the relationships and friendships more, rather than the character's appearances, I'm sure the series would've turned out better. I would've loved to hear more about the Cullen's struggles too, but alas she chose to focus on other things.

It seems like we're in the same boat, haha. I'm always reading and writing, but of course I have my guilty pleasure books. Twilight being one of them.

That all being said, I do think there are times where the books weren't that bad, and I think that people should cut fans of the book some slack every once in awhile. [this isn't directed at you in any way, I'm just saying the majority of haters attack fans/the books any chance they get.]

Sorrly, I'm tired rn and I can't seem to get my thoughts together lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:36 am

well.i like twilight just because the story is kinda extraordinary to m..
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:52 pm

stealingprayers wrote:

That all being said, I do think there are times where the books weren't that bad, and I think that people should cut fans of the book some slack every once in awhile. [this isn't directed at you in any way, I'm just saying the majority of haters attack fans/the books any chance they get.

I can see why people like it; it's a love story, and it's a fantasy. I don't think the "love" is actually love, but people want someone to adore them, and they want eternal love. It's a fairytale.

I REALLY would've liked it a lot better if the author had matched Leah and Jacob up, though. That would've been one of my favorite pairs in the book. Much, much better than the imprinting, anyways.

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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:35 am

ah..i love those kind of stories..^^
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PostSubject: ::   Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:45 pm

wow, reading that .. it makes sense. Well written, and yeah now that these issues are pointed out, i dont think the twilight series has any actual meaning. Although it's good for entertainment still what you say is true, not love only lust. Plus there are way too many things that contridict themselfs in the so called "storyline". I like it because its a love story and it's fantasy, something you want but can't have because it's not there. Plus i think too many people put themselvs as bella and edward in like thier own little fantasy relationship. I dont see how a man being abusive is sexy. Again like you said theres no personalitiy to any of the characters- boring. There could've a little more details and meanig in the series. that's my opinion.

well anyway I agree with you 100%.
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:04 pm

Spoiler:
 


..... You know I can tell for sure that majority of twilight fans are like that. REALLY ignorant in other words. I could actually deal with the book's popularity and the fact that rather bad in my opinion, but majority of twilight fans are completely unbearably ignorant and I completely agree with everything you wrote ES :/
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:55 am

well..i kinda do that kind of stuff(but without the f******)but i only do that because they are plain doing the expression wrong..they are insulting the hard work the person shown..i ONLY do that to people who rant harsh..
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:05 pm

First off, Fan girls drive me crazy. People take this story way out of porportion and just go way overboard. They seem to believe that Edward Cullen is actually a real person. I dont understand exactly why people would put themselves into the story like they are apart of it. Its fiction not reality. Plus when people yell at you for not agreeing with every little thing, it's just really ( don't want to be mean) it's not right or cool. I liked reading it for the entertainment, although not much thought was put into it, but it's not like i got full blown obssed. Ithink that some people need to get a grip on whats real. Heh another thing i hate is when girls try to make their boyfrinds turn into another edward. Thats just my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Why We Don't Like Twilight   Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:50 pm

You bring up a good point, DrakBlueSoul22...my brother's girlfriend dumped him when she started to get hard-core obsessed with Twilight. She was constantly, constantly bringing up Edward Cullen and hinting at my brother. It was strange.

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